Friday, July 1, 2011

Holy farts

I just ran into this awsome blog post on Modern Mormon Men  "On Queers and Marriage: Messieurs, I Respectfully Disagree".  I find the message that a "good" Mormon can actually support gay marriage interesting.  It's not what I believe but it's interesting.   

But what really caught my attention were the comments. All that I read were quite respectful but some were like this one by "Dusey":

I am not in support of gay marriage, but I am in support of showing love to everyone. It is possible to have a good relationship with a friend or sibling and still disagree with their lifestyle...
I do not question that gay couples can have good relations ships, however, I question how they fulfil some of the commandments of God, in both ancient and modern scripture, such as "go forth and multiple". Having a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex seems mostly for mutual gratification, as it cannot be used for creating a sacred family unit.* While I am huge proponent of adoption (I myself was adopted at birth into my family, who where unable to have children) because there are so many people out there who cannot have children, it seems selfish, to me, to choose to enter a relationship where procreation cannot happen, and then adopt a child into that relationship, or ask someone to go through the travails of birth for you.

*I am not against sexual gratification in marriage, to be clear. I am against it as the sole purpose for sex. should be for procreation. Not for fun.  So don't mate if you won't procreate.

Or how about this one from "Kristin":

I love gay people. I believe that they truly love their partners and I won't deny that love they share. I believe they should have civil rights that married people have. I do not believe it is right for them to get married. Our Church considers marraige a sacred, sacred thing even if they world has forgotten, i.e. infedelity and divorces. If you know the Plan of Happiness and have a testimony of it, if you've been to the temple and have a testimony of the things that proceed there how does gay marriage fit into it? It doesn't.

Sure you love gay people, Kristin. But not enough to let them have the same rights as you do.

A Mormon mommy blogger posted this comment:

My husband works at the church office building and he attended a devotional a month ago or so given by a lawyer who works for the church who talked about the churchs' involvement in this issue. After the devotional my husband and I discussed this subject and I wish I could remember more specifics (pregnancy brain) but here is my understandin.

Basically it has something to do with court precedent. Where at some point a court made a ruling that if the general public agreed on a specific belief/law that a church/religious group cannot break that law or do contrary to it. (vague memory of washington state and indians who wanted to smoke religious peyote sp? but it was against the common law). Also I have a vague memory of a gay couple that wanted to marry in a church and the church wouldn't allow it, but a court may or may not have forced the church to allow it ( I can’t remember for sure).

Anyway in the long view of things this could have huge consequences to the church in the future. It opens a huge legal can of worms for the church and could put us at odds with the laws of the country.

So imagine a gay mormon wants to get married in a chapel by a bishop. The state he lives in has legalized gay marriage. The bishop refuses, and the church is sued for not allowing someone the right to get married. Despite logic (the law probably doesn’t allow the right to get married wherever you please) a judge sides with the gay mormon (like that judge in cali after prop 8 that said you can’t vote based on religious belief, huh?) and the church is forced to either marry the couple in a chapel by a bishop or face some consequence that I can’t imagine.

She sure knows how to wow a person with solid facts!  A later comment easily whacked down these paper-thin arguments.

Or this gem:

An earlier commenter stated that being gay isn't a sin, but fornication is. I totally agree with this. However, as we are taught that homosexuality is an abomination to God (I would say the act not the being), it would seem that God would not recognize a homosexual marriage. So in His eyes that couple would be fornicating (thus sinning)even if in the eyes of the law they are married (kind of like a common law marriage, maybe, not sure how the church handles common law marriages) So then by advocating for homosexual marriage are you not advocating for sin?

So letting gays marry would be advocationg for sin?  My brain hurts just trying to get around that thought process.

And the big WTF:

God has given us each challenges to overcome in this life. I personally have to overcome being overweight. But, would I not have to take care of my temple better if everyone around me was saying that God wanted me to overeat?

So sexual orientation is like an eating disorder.  Yeah.

There were sooooo many more in the same vein but what they all boil down to is farts.  Holy farts.  No substance to them, just hot air.  And they stink.


  1. Wow. It's a good thing I'm on my second beer or all these mental gymnastics would make me sprain a groin muscle or something.

    These people must be medicated. I 'loved' them all but sex isn't supposed to be just for fun? Jesus F. Christ. At this point in my life, the thought of procreating would totally kill the moment.

  2. Bah. My blood pressure got higher with each comment.

    First, my husband and I got married knowing we would never be able to procreate. I know other couples who have as well. So, should we have not married because we KNEW that sex would only be for gratification? And we also selfishly adopted.

    What really pisses me off about many of the arguments (and what pissed me off even when I was a TBM) is the assumption that it's A-OK to force others to live according to your beliefs. Let's just say for a moment that Mormonism is 100% correct. I would STILL support gay marriage because people have the right to CHOOSE whether or not they believe God cares whom they marry.

    And I really want to punch people who pull out the whole churches will be forced to marry gays argument. As we saw in New York, specific language can be put into laws to prevent that. That was the main hold up in New York. Also, Catholics have been refusing to marry people for centuries, so I don't see how it would be an issue anyway.

    My husband and I have an annual gay marriage fight. I thought we'd escape it this year because he's deployed, but we managed to have it via skype. His argument is mainly that all societies from the beginning of time have refused gay unions, so we should, too. He's normally a very intelligent and caring man, but his argument baffles me. It makes no sense at all, and makes him sound like an ignorant redneck.

  3. Church lawyers are full of shit about this subject, using peoplesmisunderstanding about the law to fearmonger. We got the same at our ward, speeches sponsored by the church that were dead wrong. Very shameful for an attorney to outright lie about this subject to pander to sheeple

  4. CD, maybe I wouldn't have been so angry if I'd had a couple of drinks in me when I read them. And I may not be able to procreate anymore but I'm damn well going to have sex.

    Brandi,I'm glad I'm not the only one who's panties got into a great big wad over those comment. And I'd like to think those people are like your husband, good people but unable to see around the old, dumb arguments.

    Anonymous, I agree that the church lawyers are fearmongering. They must know they are distorting half-truths and I don't know how they can justify that. BTW, who are you? I love to know who my readers are, especially those who agree with me.